[Accused]

All Par did the math for us, we get to debate it.

News: When does Ram 1500 Diesel pay off?

Mr. Gal used EIA statistics for the week of February 3 to get the average cost of regular (V6 gasoline), midgrade (Hemi), and diesel fuel, using 15,000 miles per year as the standard; the fuel mileage ratings are for rear wheel drive (4x4s should show similar, but not exactly the same, results).

Diesels have a shorter pay back, and when compared to the HEMI you're saving on cost as well. HEMI needs premium. Where the EcoDiesel will really show its worth is in towing, Diesels see a smaller drop off in economy than gasoline.

The EcoDiesel should show an annualized advantage of $757 over the HEMI. Considering that the EcoDiesel is a $2,850 premium over the HEMI you would see pay back in under 4 years. If you tow consistently your pay back should be sooner.

Also dont forget the DEF costs when doing your own calcs based on your real world mileage and habits.

 

[Diesel Washington]

When you compare it to the V8 it makes sense but the EcoDiesel doesn't seem to be worth it just for fuel savings over the V6. 12.4 years to make back your money? I'll be so much closer to death by then. Hopefully I'll get another new car before a dozen years have gone by.

 

[L.O.A.]

When you compare it to the V8 it makes sense but the EcoDiesel doesn't seem to be worth it just for fuel savings over the V6. 12.4 years to make back your money? I'll be so much closer to death by then. Hopefully I'll get another new car before a dozen years have gone by.

I see that too.
Seems like it will really be worth it once it's on the used market, but no one here is going to wait for that realistically

 

[jhardie]

Hmmm..<scratching head>...I didn't know California was a region.

I guess since we pay some of the highest fuel costs.

 

[tugboat]

LOL california is so important it gets its own section.

 

[The Diesel Guy]

Well.. Don't believe any of these numbers if you live in the north east states. These numbers were made from some one behind a desk. We have hills here in this region so you can throw those numbers out the window. Diesel vrs Gas, the diesel will get twice the mileage hands down.

 

[Accused]

Well.. Don't believe any of these numbers if you live in the north east states. These numbers were made from some one behind a desk. We have hills here in this region so you can throw those numbers out the window. Diesel vrs Gas, the diesel will get twice the mileage hands down.

exactly, these are steady state numbers. Flat highway cruising estimates. When compared to the V6, sure its 12.4 years till pay back but thats if you only ever drive flat barren stretches of land. Throw in hills like you say or any degree of towing and It's probably safe to assume that number gets halved at best.

 

[tugboat]

Well.. Don't believe any of these numbers if you live in the north east states. These numbers were made from some one behind a desk. We have hills here in this region so you can throw those numbers out the window. Diesel vrs Gas, the diesel will get twice the mileage hands down.

yep these numbers are based on perfect ideal conditions with perfect ideal drivers

Any sort of change will impact those numbers.

Even elevation.. Even temperature.

 

[L.O.A.]

then you have to keep an eye on the MPG's when they stabilize at a number range they should be at. not all the time will you get the exact number right after taking delivery

 

[matruck]

These comparisons always seem to overlook the trade-in advantage. At trade-in time, this diesel should get a $500-$1500 bonus.

If you factor trade-in bonus at $500, the payback is 3.1 years.
If you factor trade-in bonus at $1000, the payback is 2.4 years.
If you factor trade-in bonus at $1500, the payback is 1.8 years.

My current truck is a 2011 Ram 2500 diesel. That engine is an $8,000 "option" and no fuel calculator could every justify that amount. But right now, 3 years old, that "option" adds $7,600 to the trade in value. So my fuel savings are EASILY way over the $400 net difference.

The point is that choosing the ECO-diesel is not just a raw MPG advantage. As others have tried to say its also the overall consistent economy under many conditions which also include overall maintenance, longevity, and added value at trade-in time.

 

[The Diesel Guy]

Here in the north east, what people don't consider is warm up time. It can be 0 to -10 below zero here during the winter months. A diesel warming up will prob, only burn a quart of fuel at most, in a 30 minute warm up vrs a gas truck that will burn prob, 1 gallon of gas durning that same warm up time. The savings in fuel is a lot more then what most people realize. Most people just look at hwy numbers and not overall numbers when owning a vehicle. This is where the 3.0 diesel will shine in the light truck market. The f150 ecoboost can't compete with a diesel in this region. A 5.9 cummins is better on fuel then the ford. The 3.0L dodge should shine with no problem.

 

[DieselTech69]

According to this chart, since my average miles/year is twice that used in the calculations, I would hit break-even in 2 years, max. Sounds like a no-brainer.

But, there's more to it than that, of course.

What about repair costs after warranty? Has anyone thought about that? DEF costs? Maintenance costs? Insurance costs?

For some people, the additional trade-in value means something, since they will not keep the truck for 10 years. I've had my current rig for 9 years and 249k miles. It's paid for, in good condition, but not worth much for trade in due to mileage.. My insurance costs less than $600/yr. Sure, it's a gas truck and I get crappy mileage. But the $50k new truck cost pays for a lot of fuel.....and I save on interest and insurance.

 

[RAM MAN]

Here in the north east, what people don't consider is warm up time. It can be 0 to -10 below zero here during the winter months. A diesel warming up will prob, only burn a quart of fuel at most, in a 30 minute warm up vrs a gas truck that will burn prob, 1 gallon of gas durning that same warm up time. The savings in fuel is a lot more then what most people realize. Most people just look at hwy numbers and not overall numbers when owning a vehicle. This is where the 3.0 diesel will shine in the light truck market. The f150 ecoboost can't compete with a diesel in this region. A 5.9 cummins is better on fuel then the ford. The 3.0L dodge should shine with no problem.

Lets not forget the engine block heater that can be added by dodge for 90 bucks. Pluger in and let it sit. Should warm up in no time. Wooo cant wait til my truck gets here!

 

[matruck]

Lets not forget the engine block heater that can be added by dodge for 90 bucks. Pluger in and let it sit. Should warm up in no time. Wooo cant wait til my truck gets here!

while block heaters are common on diesels, they are not unique to diesels. Plenty of people in the very cold north have block heaters installed on their gasoline engines.

That said, I live in texas and still get the block heater option on my diesels. Don't *need* it, but it sure makes things cozy in the winter (and the heated steering wheel and bun warmers )

 

[tugboat]

heated garage for the win

 

[L.O.A.]

heated garage is a must.
sometimes even windshield washer fluid rated for super cold weather will still freeze. very few ways to defrost it over time that works with your schedule than having your own heated garage.

 

[tugboat]

they have heated washer fluid boxes now. crazy

 

[rdefayette]

Here in the north east, what people don't consider is warm up time. It can be 0 to -10 below zero here during the winter months. A diesel warming up will prob, only burn a quart of fuel at most, in a 30 minute warm up vrs a gas truck that will burn prob, 1 gallon of gas durning that same warm up time. The savings in fuel is a lot more then what most people realize. Most people just look at hwy numbers and not overall numbers when owning a vehicle. This is where the 3.0 diesel will shine in the light truck market. The f150 ecoboost can't compete with a diesel in this region. A 5.9 cummins is better on fuel then the ford. The 3.0L dodge should shine with no problem.

I'm from over on the Cummins side. One thing new 3.0 owners will learn in short order (during the cold months) is that the block heater will be used a lot for quick heat in the am. Idleing for warm-up doesn't really work all that well as diesels are negative heat loss generators. The generate heat when under a load not while idleing. In the winter I'll use the block heater so I have some heat to de-frost/de-ice the windshield otherwise it's kinda tough for about 10 miles. I can leave the Cummins idleing for 1/2 hour and the temp needle won't even move off the cold peg. Drive it 10-15 miles and it's good to go. Then there is the issue of "wet stacking" all diesels suffer from this if left idleing for prolonged periods especially in cold weather. Not sure on the Ecodiesel yet but the block heater plugged into a timer is the way to go. No need to run it all night as afetr 2 hours, in a Cummins anyway, the coolant is as hot as it's going to get.

 

[The Diesel Guy]

Wet Stacking

Wet stacking is one thing you probably don't have to worry about with the Cummins
I have and 03 5.9 with the edge chip set on setting #1 and it does talk longer to warm up because of the chip but wet stacking is no problem. If you have ( lets say !) the smarty Jr and have it set on the higher setting then you might have a little wet stacking if you let it idle for long periods. The fords with the 6.0 and 7.3 Diesels have the most problems with this. ( funny !! Do a search on wet stacking on google and see what pops up )

To be perfectly honest I drive my Cummins 6 miles to work and 6 miles home M-F for the last 10yrs and have never plug it in but maybe 2wice in those 10 yrs and thats because the wind chill was about -40. Even at -15 that trucks starts. She may grunt ! But she starts. I let it warm up for a good 30 minutes before I go. AND I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM......

I'm gona guess, that it won't be a concern at all, in the new 3.0L

 

[tugboat]

so in general you would say its a bad idea to warm up a diesel engine in the winter time? just turn on and go?